Apolo's Competition

[Lindsey]

At Ty's suggestion, I'm opening up this thread to talk about Apolo's short track competition. I'm sure there are a lot of us that aren't familiar with a lot of skaters, so this will give us a chance to discover who they are and how they match up to Apolo.

I'd like to nominate Ahn Hyun-soo (hope I spelled that right?) of Korea for the first discussion. I don't know if this is going to be a week by week thing, Ty?

Again, at home at dial-up. I'll have to do some research at work tomorrow, but I thought I'd open it for people who want to read up tonight and start postin'!

[tynormem]

Whatever works, Lindsey. It can be a week by week thing where we nominate people, we can start a few threads each dedicated to one competitor, or we can just have this thread where we talk about anyone and everyone!

[elsa]

I can't find it now -- but Ahn was asked about Ohno, not too long ago, and said he wanted to be his friend, that Apolo was a truly great short-track speedskater. Something like that - it sounded so sweet, considering all the water under the bridge between the Korean speedskaters and Apolo.

You veteran fans correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I think happened: When Apolo won his silver medal after being knocked down in 2002 Olympics, it was Ahn who wrapped his arm around Apolo, pulling him down, after Ahn attempted an inside pass after the collision caused by the Chinese skater had taken some other skater down -- however, only the Chinese skater was disqualified. But I've seen a film and you can see Ahn's arm around Apolo's waist before Apolo fell, "supposedly" Ahn did this to keep from falling himself, so they said. Hmmm. Ahn was very young then, like 16 or 17, and he, along with the rest of the Korean team, left without any medals. I think for the next four years they dreamed and worked hard with one goal: to beat Apolo, as much as to win themselves. However, more drama was taking place between Ahn and the other major current Korean skater, Lee Ho-suk.

Here's some more stuff about him I managed to copy down:

Magazine article: In 2006, when Ohno was beat by two South Korea skaters in the 1,000-meter race, he made it a point to show good sportsmanship. “I was the first to shake their hands,” he said. On the medals stand, gold medalist Ahn Hyun Soo invited silver winner Lee Ho-suk and bronze medalist Ohno to share the top of the podium with him.

Ohno believes any hostility between the Americans and the South Koreans has been a function of the media’s imagination. “We get along fine,” he insisted. Ohno looked leaner in person than he does on TV, but he is just as personable, friendly and refreshingly honest.
--

From comments below a You-Tube film, I think of the 500m awards ceremony:

Poster 1: Because Lee's coach tried to prevent Ahn from winning, Ahn's father socked Vice president of Korean Skating Union in the face and there was like a civil war going on within Korean Skating Union.

Poster 2: What you have said is partially true but Ahn and Lee don't think of Ohno as a rival because Ahn and Lee are rivals. Ahn and Lee are from different coaches and when Ahn was transferred to Lee's coach, Lee's coach wanted Lee to win and tried to prevent Ahn from winning gold. Unfortunately, Ahn had more skills than Lee and since they were busy competing against each other, they didn't bother caring about Ohno.

Can't remember where I copied this from:

2006 was weird. Instead of facing against Ohno, Lee and Ahn faced against themselves but somehow beat Ohno. Lee and Ahn were enemies and hated each other, so they both wanted to get gold medal. Ahn and Lee are from different coaches. But Ahn was transferred to Lee's coach and Lee's coach didn't want to make Ahn win. Ahn had much more skills than Lee and was able to win. Because of this, Ahn's father socked vice president of Korean Skating Union.

In the 2002 Olympic 1,500-meter final, Korea's Kim Dong-Sung crossed the finish line first but was disqualified for a blocking move on Ohno. Korean sports officials protested the call, and Ohno received death threats in the ensuing controversy. After Saturday's race, Ahn was asked for his opinion on what transpired in 2002 at a press conference just as Ohno was joining him on the podium. Ohno gave Ahn a congratulatory pat on the back before sitting down. "These things are understandable," Ahn said of the 2002 events. "They can happen in competition."

Aw, that last bit makes me feel better about Ahn. That and his comment that he wants to be Apolo's friend. And he said that he now realized that Apolo putting his hands up to avoid colliding with Kim Dong-Sung was NOT cheating.

And Yuki says the roughest Korean speedskater is Lee Ho-suk - that he's wild and he'll do anything to keep Apolo from winning. Hopefully the rivalry with Ahn will make Lee less brutal with Apolo.

Also, in '06 Ahn said on his website that he was thinking about quitting short track speedskating because of the controversies (Ahn and Lee wouldn't sit beside each other on the plane, etc.) I don't think he's going to quit though - he was in Milan.

[Elle]

I can't wait to start talking about our Favourite Canadian skaters. I love them all. We could start there

[Lindsey]

elsa said:

Poster 1: Because Lee's coach tried to prevent Ahn from winning, Ahn's father socked Vice president of Korean Skating Union in the face and there was like a civil war going on within Korean Skating Union.

Poster 2: What you have said is partially true but Ahn and Lee don't think of Ohno as a rival because Ahn and Lee are rivals. Ahn and Lee are from different coaches and when Ahn was transferred to Lee's coach, Lee's coach wanted Lee to win and tried to prevent Ahn from winning gold. Unfortunately, Ahn had more skills than Lee and since they were busy competing against each other, they didn't bother caring about Ohno.

How interesting. I guess I didn't realize that Ahn and Lee were necessarily rivals. So maybe they weren't *team skating* after all? It certainly appeared that way. I also thought it was interesting how Lee is considered tougher--although Ahn has more skills. I always thought Lee looked *less tough* (without sounding too harsh).

[laura6]

I also never really realized that those skaters had such internal issues..I also thought that they have a rule about not being able to skate professionally after a certain age.

[claire522]

Ahn is really good. he's a force to be reckoned with come 2010.

elle, i'm in canada. i'm still catching up with speed skating since i became a fan only thru Apolo at DWTS. but i sure do want to see them skate.

[elsa]

Yuki said that about Lee (that he's the biggest threat to Apolo in terms of his aggression/wildness) in a live interview I found somewhere -- actually, one that olympia found FOR me. She's amazing! I've seen and read so much it all runs together sometimes - even though I take notes, it still happens.

I think Ahn and Lee may have team-skated AND had the rivalry between themselves. I think what USED to happen is that one (say, Lee) was designated as the guy to worry only about Apolo, and Ahn, let's say, was designated as the one to win. [Apolo explained how this worked in an interview with NBC, I believe, that aired before or during the Torino Olympics.]

I think Lee (and his coach/family/whatever) got mad about it and refused to play along. At least play along to the extent they wanted him to -- meaning, give up any chance at winning himself to keep Apolo from medaling. [and if it's true that Lee used to be the one designated solely to take care of Apolo, it would explain Yuki's feelings towards him.]

That doesn't mean there's no team-skating but it isn't going quite as smoothly as some would want (in the Korean executive quarters.) Their two "hot shots" both want to win in ADDITION to keeping Apolo (and therefore, the pretty-much-hated United States) off the podium.

*Maybe* Ahn means it when he says he wants to be Apolo's friend -- I hope so, but he himself implies that he used to believe that Apolo was "bad" or "the enemy" or whatever, and it's a HUUUUUGE deal for defensive little Korea who's mostly furious that American troops are still on their soil to beat the world's only superpower, esp. after the male Korean ST speedskaters were shut out of the medals in SLC (because of Apolo, as they believe.) As Apolo has said, if only he could be an underdog again that the rest of the speedskating world wasn't plotting against, how sweet it would be.

Sorry to go on and on -- can you tell I was a history major who still can't stop researching, documenting, and hypothesizing?

[laura6]

elsa said:

Yuki said that about Lee (that he's the biggest threat to Apolo in terms of his aggression/wildness) in a live interview I found somewhere -- actually, one that olympia found FOR me. She's amazing! I've seen and read so much it all runs together sometimes - even though I take notes, it still happens.

I think Ahn and Lee may have team-skated AND had the rivalry between themselves. I think what USED to happen is that one (say, Lee) was designated as the guy to worry only about Apolo, and Ahn, let's say, was designated as the one to win. [Apolo explained how this worked in an interview with NBC, I believe, that aired before or during the Torino Olympics.]

Great post..I am not very schooled on apolos sport!! yes i admit it !! LOL but I have always been very curious about team skating...in the new video section one of the olympic videos he does talk about this problem.

I think Lee (and his coach/family/whatever) got mad about it and refused to play along. At least play along to the extent they wanted him to -- meaning, give up any chance at winning himself to keep Apolo from medaling. [and if it's true that Lee used to be the one designated solely to take care of Apolo, it would explain Yuki's feelings towards him.]

That doesn't mean there's no team-skating but it isn't going quite as smoothly as some would want (in the Korean executive quarters.) Their two "hot shots" both want to win in ADDITION to keeping Apolo (and therefore, the pretty-much-hated United States) off the podium.

*Maybe* Ahn means it when he says he wants to be Apolo's friend -- I hope so, but he himself implies that he used to believe that Apolo was "bad" or "the enemy" or whatever, and it's a HUUUUUGE deal for defensive little Korea who's mostly furious that American troops are still on their soil to beat the world's only superpower, esp. after the male Korean ST speedskaters were shut out of the medals in SLC (because of Apolo, as they believe.) As Apolo has said, if only he could be an underdog again that the rest of the speedskating world wasn't plotting against, how sweet it would be.

Sorry to go on and on -- can you tell I was a history major who still can't stop researching, documenting, and hypothesizing?

Great post!! I have been very curious about team skating for awhile..in the new amazing video section there is a great video of him talking about this..

[Lindsey]

elsa said:

Yuki said that about Lee (that he's the biggest threat to Apolo in terms of his aggression/wildness) in a live interview I found somewhere -- actually, one that olympia found FOR me. She's amazing! I've seen and read so much it all runs together sometimes - even though I take notes, it still happens.

I think Ahn and Lee may have team-skated AND had the rivalry between themselves. I think what USED to happen is that one (say, Lee) was designated as the guy to worry only about Apolo, and Ahn, let's say, was designated as the one to win. [Apolo explained how this worked in an interview with NBC, I believe, that aired before or during the Torino Olympics.]

I think Lee (and his coach/family/whatever) got mad about it and refused to play along. At least play along to the extent they wanted him to -- meaning, give up any chance at winning himself to keep Apolo from medaling. [and if it's true that Lee used to be the one designated solely to take care of Apolo, it would explain Yuki's feelings towards him.]

That doesn't mean there's no team-skating but it isn't going quite as smoothly as some would want (in the Korean executive quarters.) Their two "hot shots" both want to win in ADDITION to keeping Apolo (and therefore, the pretty-much-hated United States) off the podium.

*Maybe* Ahn means it when he says he wants to be Apolo's friend -- I hope so, but he himself implies that he used to believe that Apolo was "bad" or "the enemy" or whatever, and it's a HUUUUUGE deal for defensive little Korea who's mostly furious that American troops are still on their soil to beat the world's only superpower, esp. after the male Korean ST speedskaters were shut out of the medals in SLC (because of Apolo, as they believe.) As Apolo has said, if only he could be an underdog again that the rest of the speedskating world wasn't plotting against, how sweet it would be.

Sorry to go on and on -- can you tell I was a history major who still can't stop researching, documenting, and hypothesizing?

Elsa, you are absolutely amazing at finding all this information. As a jealous Apolo fanatic, I believe it was in fact the Koreans who cost Apolo his gold in Turino... remember that quick pass Lee made right at the end of the 1000m that cut him off? Unfortunately, the pass was totally legal, but anyways... *sigh*

Don't stop your research, Elsa! It's invaluable!

[laura6]

although I am not an expert on his sport..I fully admit that..I have felt that he is singled out and really almost targeted!!!

elsa...I like having all that info in one nice post!! then i do not have to try to research myself!!! LOL

[tdav]

I think that Ahn and Lee are Apolo's biggest competition. Moreso Ahn than Lee. But, I think Apolo has said that him and Ahn get along and are friends. But, as for Korean and Chinese speedskating as a whole, those two countries have sort of "ruled" the speedskating world, if you will, and the athletes basically train just to beat Apolo.

As for Ahn and Lee, I think I've read somewhere that they DO NOT get along at all. They can't even be on the same plane. I think that Ahn was placed with Lee's coach (along with Lee) and that Lee's coach was not supporting Ahn, which caused a backlash within the Korean speedskating world.

[Guest II]

tdavis said:

I think that Ahn and Lee are Apolo's biggest competition. Moreso Ahn than Lee. But, I think Apolo has said that him and Ahn get along and are friends. But, as for Korean and Chinese speedskating as a whole, those two countries have sort of "ruled" the speedskating world, if you will, and the athletes basically train just to beat Apolo.

Do you think that they train just to beat Apolo, or to win in general? I know that Apolo is an incredible skater, but there are other great skaters out there that are competition that I'm sure Korea would like to beat. Also for as much as I think the Chinese are great skaters, I think the Canadians are better as a whole than the Chinese. The Chinese women are definitely stronger than the Canadians, but the Canadian men are better and offer a deeper team in terms of skill than the Chinese.

[tdav]

Well of course they train to win too, but Apolo is basically their biggest competition. During the 2006 Olympics, Apolo and Ahn were stated as being two of the best speedskaters in the world.

[elsa]

Guest said:

tdavis said:

I think that Ahn and Lee are Apolo's biggest competition. Moreso Ahn than Lee. But, I think Apolo has said that him and Ahn get along and are friends. But, as for Korean and Chinese speedskating as a whole, those two countries have sort of "ruled" the speedskating world, if you will, and the athletes basically train just to beat Apolo.

Do you think that they train just to beat Apolo, or to win in general? I know that Apolo is an incredible skater, but there are other great skaters out there that are competition that I'm sure Korea would like to beat. Also for as much as I think the Chinese are great skaters, I think the Canadians are better as a whole than the Chinese. The Chinese women are definitely stronger than the Canadians, but the Canadian men are better and offer a deeper team in terms of skill than the Chinese.

Apolo said himself that they train to beat him. It was one of those glorious close-up NBC interviews before/during Torino. OMG he's drop-dead BEAUTIFUL in those interviews. One of them is entitled, "Speed Track is War" or something like that -- I think that's the one in which he says that they train specifically to beat him. It goes something like this --

Since Salt Lake City, every time, it's been like 3 Koreans, 2 Canadians, 2 Chinese, and me. Just me for the US. And each team has a plan. Team skating is illegal but "obviously" it goes on "all the time." (I know he said that phrase.) One player will be designated to win and another to take care of me - not let me pass or whatever. So I can't just worry about each individual skater and his strengths, I have to worry about what the team's plan is...

I wish I were computer savvy enough to post a link to that interview but I've watched it more times than I like to admit. He's so vulnerable, so touching, so, well, almost sad and overwhelmed by the challenge - yet still hanging in and doing all he can to deal with it -- and NEVER have I seen him be more beautiful -- it's just the sum total of everything I love about Apolo, in one interview. Mercy.

The name of it is ShortTrackisWar.wmv (if that helps)