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Post by tynormem on Jul 6, 2007 16:40:22 GMT -5
I am loving this thread....thanks for all the great info!
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Post by Lindsey on Jul 6, 2007 17:02:21 GMT -5
Do you think that they train just to beat Apolo, or to win in general? I know that Apolo is an incredible skater, but there are other great skaters out there that are competition that I'm sure Korea would like to beat. Also for as much as I think the Chinese are great skaters, I think the Canadians are better as a whole than the Chinese. The Chinese women are definitely stronger than the Canadians, but the Canadian men are better and offer a deeper team in terms of skill than the Chinese. Apolo said himself that they train to beat him. It was one of those glorious close-up NBC interviews before/during Torino. OMG he's drop-dead BEAUTIFUL in those interviews. One of them is entitled, "Speed Track is War" or something like that -- I think that's the one in which he says that they train specifically to beat him. It goes something like this -- Since Salt Lake City, every time, it's been like 3 Koreans, 2 Canadians, 2 Chinese, and me. Just me for the US. And each team has a plan. Team skating is illegal but "obviously" it goes on "all the time." (I know he said that phrase.) One player will be designated to win and another to take care of me - not let me pass or whatever. So I can't just worry about each individual skater and his strengths, I have to worry about what the team's plan is... I wish I were computer savvy enough to post a link to that interview but I've watched it more times than I like to admit. He's so vulnerable, so touching, so, well, almost sad and overwhelmed by the challenge - yet still hanging in and doing all he can to deal with it -- and NEVER have I seen him be more beautiful -- it's just the sum total of everything I love about Apolo, in one interview. Mercy. The name of it is ShortTrackisWar.wmv (if that helps) I've gotta go watch that interview again (It's in the Video Archive, btw). You know what I really like about Apolo? How he states the facts about how things *are* but yet still comes across sounding humble! It's not like he's spouting off that he's one of the best--he's just facing up to the fact that others are out to get him and will plan for that as best he can. I mean, how would you feel if people were ganging up on you to *fail*/lose/whatever at YOUR job? I'm sure some people have encountered that, actually, and I'm sure it's not pleasant. I, for one, would probably fight it as best I could, but after years... (like he said, for Apolo it's been since 2002!) I'd probably end up giving up. But not Apolo, not Apolo... Another reason to love this guy. |
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Post by Lindsey on Jul 10, 2007 11:24:12 GMT -5
Okie dokie, it's already past Monday, so do we want to talk about another competitor? Any nominations? I think elle suggested some Canadians, but I haven't seen her lately. I really enjoyed learning about Ahn, and Lee, as it turned out, so let's continue!
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Post by tynormem on Jul 10, 2007 11:45:17 GMT -5
Good idea. I have heard lots of good stuff about the Canadians. I'd love to learn more about my neighbors to the North.
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Post by Lindsey on Jul 10, 2007 12:05:20 GMT -5
So shall we discuss *all* Canadians... or just one?
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Post by elsa on Jul 10, 2007 13:46:42 GMT -5
I want to learn about the one who looks like Heathcliff -- long hair -- I think his name is Hamelin but I'm not sure. He recently (wish I could remember exactly when) was on the podium with Apolo and Ahn -- maybe Milan?
Oh, and I'd love to learn about any of the other ones - is there a Frou or something like that? He seems to be a 500m specialist maybe? But Apolo beat him in the Olympics anyhow - though he came in 2nd I think. I didn't like his wool cap with the ear flaps -- I'd love to see him without that thing on.
Canadians are really GOOD at this sport! I wonder if many of them harbor any grudges against Apolo for sorta overshadowing their guys.
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Post by tigerlilly on Jul 13, 2007 9:27:17 GMT -5
For elsa....Here ya go, gf! Check out this official Canadian short track site and link from there: www.speedskating.ca/eng/highperformance/bios_st/shorttrack.htm Scroll down the bios to Charles Hamelin and Francois-Louis Tremblay (a.k.a. Flou Tremblay). While you're there, check out Jean-Francois Monette (a.k.a. Jeff Monette). He was a Canadian stand-out a couple of years ago, but had some tough luck injuries. What's really going to be interesting this year is the coaching turnover in international short track. You've got former Canadian coaches now coaching in the U.S. and vice versa. (We've also got a Korean coach leaving the U.S. program to go back home to South Korea and another leaving South Korea to coach in the U.S.) Also, Apolo's former coach, mentor, and friend Stephen Gough recently was hired to the Canadian National program. ( He's a Canadian, was on the Canadian ST team himself in years past, was hired & fired twice as part of the U.S. coaching staff---which was another drama in itself...lol). Anyway, he knows a lot about Apolo's skating moves. This year should bring on some veeeery interesting competition across the board! Personally, while I admire the Canadians greatly (and they've got some hunks, too) I'm most def pro-U.S. when the blades touch the ice!! Our program has had so many problems and instability for years that I think we need all the help and support we can get...lol! I'd like to see some healthy rivalry between us & the gorgeous Canucks, though. It adds to the excitement of the season, IMO.  |
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Post by tigerlilly on Jul 13, 2007 10:11:17 GMT -5
Thanx for this thread! I love talking about Apolo in his sport, which includes (for me) sizing up the competition. OK....Here's my two cents re: the current South Korean standout: Hyun-Soo Ahn--Geez, what can I say except the man has impeccable skating technique and he's at the top of his game . When he was younger, less experienced, and not as physically strong I was convinced that he needed team skating to help him win. The two seasons following the 2002 Olympics he just didn't seem to have as much confidence in himself, but I think that came with experience and with some changes in the S. Korean system. They took such flack about team skating and also Ahn wanted to prove he could win on his own. During the 2006 Olympics and the ST season prior to that Olympics, he certainly emerged as an individual star. Now he doesn't need team skating to win. He's just that good. Even with all the upheaval in the South Korean ST system and the allegations of overly harsh training methods over the past few years, they have managed to make technical advances in the sport and generally raise the bar for performance to an insanely high level. Here's the thing....Everything I learn about these guys leads me to admire and appreciate Apolo even more!! He has been saying for years that ST is an ever-changing and advancing sport and that he has to change and advance in order to keep up. He has managed to be S. Korea's and everybody else's nemesis on a consistent basis for years! That's freakin' amazing in the ST world and considering that there has been hardly any coaching consistency in our U.S. program for all of Apolo's career!! One thing he has spoken about is how the South Koreans are so physically lean and therefore light on the ice (making for more speed), yet they maintain strength & stamina and the ability to have quick bursts of power. That's what John Schaeffer has done for Apolo. Now I see that they're maybe shooting for a weight of 145 (yikes!!) while at the same time increasing Apolo's strength and stamina. I'm dying to see how this impacts his performance!! J.S. says that Apolo's stronger than ever, so I hope for a great season!! OK....I'll shut up now. I'm just excited....lol!!  |
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Post by elsa on Jul 13, 2007 10:56:39 GMT -5
No, don't shut up! I'm loving this, tigerlilly!! I wondered if this Ahn guy really was the real thing - or if it was still the team skating keeping him at an unfair advantage. When I heard about the 145 thing, I immediately thought of Ahn too, who's always been like reed-thin. I did notice in Milan or maybe '06 films that he's taller than Apolo now, a little bit anyway. I hope he keeps on growing and that messes him up a bit - Shani talks about how hard height is on a short-tracker - harder to keep down and protect your ice and lean, etc. I was happy to read about Ahn wanting to be Apolo's friend and being somewhat soft (meaning nicer) in his comments about Apolo, with all the past bad blood and everything. Now that Kim Dong-Sung or whoever it was that Apolo beat for gold in '02 due to Kim's crosstracking (that I don't think Kim admitted to) - now that he's coaching in America, I wonder what he says about Apolo - and I wonder if they're friends now? I'm looking so forward to checking out those Canadian cuties and I will and will get back to you. Just had to comment quickly to THANK YOU SO MUCH! It'll help so much to get "into" my first season of trying to follow short-track leading up to 2010. Now I have a reason to step up my exercising to make sure I make it to 2010, lol. See what Apolo has done for me? Probably added years to my life. (I'm not that old - 52 - but hey, that's when all sorts of crap starts going wrong with your body so might as well start exercising an hour a day -- for Apolo, that would be NOTHING.) I shouldn't say this - but how come Apolo's trainer John looks overweight and out of shape??? I know he was a power lifter or something like that, but still. And his color isn't right - too ruddy or something. Oh well, for all I know he's 75 or something and in the best shape for his age of any human on earth.... (Like Apolo  |
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Post by Lindsey on Jul 13, 2007 11:13:47 GMT -5
Wow--I've learned so much in these last few posts! Tigerlily, don't you dare shut up! I hadn't heard a lot of that stuff you mentioned--especially about the coaching changes and switchovers. That was all so fascinating!
How interesting that one of Apolo's former coaches will be coaching the Canadians. His knowledge about Apolo will probably be VERY valuable to them. I know we're talking short track here, but I'm also a huge football fan, and I can recall some very interesting situations when, i.e., an assistant coach from one team would get hired on another team and reveal a bunch of secret plays! Actually, that happened to my Patriots last season. BOO. So of course similar things would happen in ST, given the amount of strategy involved.
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Post by elsa on Jul 13, 2007 13:12:21 GMT -5
tigerlilly can correct me [please!] where I'm wrong, but here's some of the details I think I copied down correctly from Ohno Zone: Korean "supercoach" Jae Su Chun has come down from Canada to coach the US team [April 28, '07], and a number of the Canadian skaters are not happy about this. He's credited with renovating the Canadian team and making them more competitive with the Koreans, who Tremblay says have "revolutionized" the sport in recent years [witness Ahn, Lee, and the Korean women, I guess], with their very hard training schedule (about 10 hours a day with 6 hours on the ice! - while the Americans get 3 hours or less on the ice, if that - I'm not sure SLC is even ready for them to start on the ice yet - either later in July or August they should be.)
Before the big dog, Jae Su Chun, two other very important Canadian coaches also defected: Guy Thibault was named US "high performance director" last October -- and the other guy, the "technical specialist" Laurent Daignault, defected afterwards, I think because Thibault was mistreated and LD was mad about it. LD said, "Guy's dismissal was a monumental error" on the part of the Canadians.
Jae is known as a "technique" coach (that's supposedly what Korea is so fabulous at and the US - maybe with the exception of Apolo? - not so much).
Another interesting thing - I think this was last summer ('06), Allison Baver wrote a letter to the US Speedskater authorities saying that new people needed to come in to change the "current culture of mistrust, dysfunction, and disrespect." Actually this was BEFORE a new leader of US Speedskating was named so I think they took her advice. [oh and the Chinese lady who used to be in charge of US Speedskating, Li Yan, resigned and may become the first female coach of the Chinese National Team.] Apolo wrote a letter like this several years back, I believe -- well, you guys know more than I do, but I thought it was intriguing that Allison wrote a similar letter herself last year - I imagine he was involved with her letter too. Those guys have such a hard time.
I don't know if I should bring all this over here from Ohno Zone or not!! Miss Wizard, let me know ?!?!? I mean, I assume some details would help us with our discussion, but I just typed out everything I copied from them recently on the subject, lol, talk about plagiarism, I'm so baaadd....
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Post by tynormem on Jul 13, 2007 13:58:24 GMT -5
I love this thread more every day. Thanks for all the info everyone!
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Post by Guest II on Jul 14, 2007 5:00:40 GMT -5
I wondered if this Ahn guy really was the real thing - or if it was still the team skating keeping him at an unfair advantage. He's definitely the real thing. Sure, team skating gave him a little bit of an advantage, but he legitimately had the athleticism and skill to make him a worthy adversary for Apolo. Team skating can only do so much, and really gives no advantage during the 500m, the shortest race. Ahn is ranked pretty high in that distance. I hope he keeps on growing and that messes him up a bit - Shani talks about how hard height is on a short-tracker - harder to keep down and protect your ice and lean, etc. There have been skaters that have done well, despite the disadvantage of height. Two skaters in Canada, Jean-Francois Monette and Jo Guilmette are near 6 feet and have been in the top 10 in their best years. Shani has done pretty well, too. But who knows, Ahn's height could present him with a challenge since I'm sure that the Korean training may be more beneficial for a smaller, compact skater... I was happy to read about Ahn wanting to be Apolo's friend and being somewhat soft (meaning nicer) in his comments about Apolo, with all the past bad blood and everything. Now that Kim Dong-Sung or whoever it was that Apolo beat for gold in '02 due to Kim's crosstracking (that I don't think Kim admitted to) - now that he's coaching in America, I wonder what he says about Apolo - and I wonder if they're friends now? I doubt that Kim and Apolo are "friends", like, "Hey KDS, let's go karaoke tonight!" but I do think that they get along. I think that all the drama that happened between them was egged on by the media. I think it's a bigger deal to the fans on both sides than it is to the skaters. It's given American fans negative feelings towards the Korean skaters and vice versa. Truthfully, the Koreans seem to be a funloving bunch that get along with the other teams. Remember, these are people that see each other several times every year. Although they have the competitive feelings on ice, that doesn't necessarily transfer to their off-ice feelings. Now I have a reason to step up my exercising to make sure I make it to 2010, lol. See what Apolo has done for me? Probably added years to my life. (I'm not that old - 52 - but hey, that's when all sorts of crap starts going wrong with your body so might as well start exercising an hour a day -- for Apolo, that would be NOTHING.) That's great! I need to step up my exercise routine (um, well START one) just because I know that osteoporosis is knocking on my door, and strengthening your body is one way to prevent it. I shouldn't say this - but how come Apolo's trainer John looks overweight and out of shape??? I know he was a power lifter or something like that, but still. And his color isn't right - too ruddy or something. Oh well, for all I know he's 75 or something and in the best shape for his age of any human on earth.... (Like Apolo I dunno, I know he's about 50...the friends that I have that were big into weightlifting have similar body types, especially if they have stopped for several years. |
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Post by Lori on Jul 14, 2007 15:50:51 GMT -5
Re: teamskating - someone above mentioned the fact that Ahn and Lee had different coaches. True, but it's more than that. I remember a discussion on another board speaking to the fact that Ahn is actually in a different 'faction' than the other men on the current Korean team, and that the factions are fiercely competetive with each other. I believe it was said that it would be unlikely that Ahn would be involved in team skating for that reason, and might even be the victim of it, at times, within his own national team.
I'm just speaking from vague recollections - 'anyone remember that discussion enough to clarify?
EDIT: I found the thread - the comment was from a Korean fan, who said that Ahn has actually complained about team skating against him by members of his own team. She indicated that these factions (maybe like the ST clubs in the US?) are essentially 'teams within a team'.
Anyhow, he's the World Champion and an amazing skater...
It appears that short-track coaches have a short shelf-life - I just wonder how disruptive it is for the skaters.
I'd like to throw Olivier Jean (Canada) into the mix, as well as Jordan Malone from our own US team...
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Post by Laura666 on Jul 14, 2007 17:25:24 GMT -5
Re: teamskating - someone above mentioned the fact that Ahn and Lee had different coaches. True. However, I remember a discussion on another board speaking to the fact that Ahn is actually in a different 'faction' than the other men on the current Korean team, and that the factions are fiercely competetive with each other. I believe it was said that it would be unlikely that Ahn would be involved in team skating for that reason, and might even be the victim of it, at times, within his own team. I'm just speaking from vague recollections - 'anyone remember that discussion enough to clarify? It appears that short-track coaches have a short shelf-life - I just wonder how disruptive it is for the skaters. I'd like to throw Olivier Jean (Canada) into the mix! I have no idea if this is true..but I thought that in Korea you could not skate after a certain age?? does anyone know if this is true?? |
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~Lori