Thoughts on Vancouver (discuss)

[Apolo_USA]

This is gonna be a long one..lol so don't say you weren't warned.

First off, I didn't come here to "bash" Apolo. I have been obsessed with him since even before 2002. He's the benchmark in terms of US Speedskating.

However, I must say that the Vancouver games for Apolo left me disappointed. Yes, I know he passed Bonnie Blair. Yes, he won 3 medals. Yes, he gave his all, "no regrets"....ad nasuem.

It just seemed to me like everything was a little half-a**ed, with lack of a better word. When he tied Blair's record, it was a silver....which was technically only won because the koreans went down like dominoes at the last turn.

That wasn't what bothered me, though. The whole "most decorated athlete" irks me. ESPECIALLY in the way it was won. Don't get me wrong, a bronze medal is certainly nothing to scoff at. However, when we're talking history books and dealing with calling someone the most decorated athlete in US history ( in the Winter OLympics), bronze does leave a little to be desired. It felt like, "Yeah, he has the most now", but it was a little disappointing because you couldn't really celebrate to the fullest. When you win the gold, you get that exhilirating feeling and the celebration that follows is priceless. You get to run over to the boards and hug your coaches and loved ones, a la Charles Hamelin and his gf. But to me, when Apolo won bronze to pass Bonnie Blair, it was more like a shrug of the shoulders. Yeah, he passed her in count, but he didn't pass her with a "bang"....more like a whimper, if anything.

I never thought I'd get tired of seeing Apolo on the tv. But the CONSTANT "Apolo Ohno, record breaking.." gets old fast. He won 2 bronze and a lucky silver, NBC. Bonnie Blair won 5 GOLD and a silver. I wasn't even alive when Blair won her's so obviously I cant be a huge fan of hers. but even being a huge Apolo fan I realize that he is simply not the most decorated. He has two golds, one of which he didn't cross the line first. He has 2 silvers, one he was lucky to get. And 4 bronze...the last possible medal.

To me, it seems that Apolo over estimated his ability at these oylmpics. He stayed in the back forEVER. I know that was his strategy in 2002, and 2006. But it was clear he doesn't have the passing ability he used to. The world just straight up caught up to him. He used to be able to pass 3 guys in one slick move. Now, it was a struggle to pass one guy. I think he overestimated himself in that he thought he could still be as good as he was. And it was obvious he wasn't.

I was disappointed because it seemed like Apolo was there to get his record, and he did just enough to do so, and that's it. This is evidenced by the little "let's put our fingers up after a race to see if we can count". That really annoyed me. It shouldn't matter how many you have, the "record" shouldn't matter...Stop counting on your d**n fingers when the whole world knows you got 4 bronze...not even matching 5 gold that Blair OR Heiden has.

I know ST is unpredictable. I skate myself, and I certainly have been through the crashes, bumps, etc. But let's see...Wang Meng (considered the best) won 3 gold and a silver. The Koreans won 2 gold and a silver. It IS unpredicable and crazy stuff does happen, but the best people DO tend to win. Just look at 2006- ahn was CLEARLY the BEST skater and he won 3 golds. If you want to give the unpredictable angle as an excuse, just think that Apolo was lucky to even be in the finals, and was even more lucky to win a medal.

Apolo came off as very arrogant at these games. It seems like he stayed in the back not for strategy, but so there could be headlines "APOLO MAKES AMAZING PASS TO WIN"....funny thing is, those passes never happened. Why? Apolo just isn't as good anymore. If he really came back for "icing on the cake" then why must he set his fingers up to count his medals every time? He did JUST enough to get his "record", and if he's happy in his fantasy world, then good for him. But to me, ending the Olympics without the title of "Olympic Champion" is pretty self explanatory as to who's the best. Ending your olympic career with 2 or 3 obvious slips in the relay where we should have won silver...not the way to go.

It seems like this whole "most decorated thing" was nice, but kind of going out with a whimper, not a bang. Good for him he got it, but its forever going to be a question to me.

Before you rag on me...let me ask you this: if someone comes around and wins 9 bronzes, are you going to want to fork over that title of "most decorated"?

[told ya it was long ]

[tdav]

Although I agree, somewhat; there is no way you can compare short track with long track. In long track, if you're the fastest, you're pretty much gauranteed a medal. And I think the same "disappointment" can be applied to Lee Ho-suk. Now HE had a disappointing games.

In my opinion, men's short track was a little lack-luster this year; there was no clear best skater. Lee Ho-suk was supposed to be the best Korean; he only got two silvers and was crashing all over the place. Lee Jung-su got two golds and a silver but he only competed in three events (two indivs. at that); Hamelin was supposed to be the Canadian phenom; though he got gold, it was only one individual medal. Apolo, I think you can say that, at his age, he did good because I had my doubts. I really did. Also, the Korean women were a disaster.

And I'm sorry but Apolo's retirement is going to be a big blow (as Jae said); us and Canada are never going to get anywhere unless we FULLY ADOPT KOREAN TRAINING METHODS!! Not just for the year leading up to the Olympics, but for ALL years. Look at the Chinese men! Two years ago, they were nothing; now look at them. They're on the same level as us and Canada [if not better]! Li Yan must be doing something right.

Overall, I think Apolo did good; though no gold, he had a successful time and you can't take away from that. But I will say that I don't know what he was doing in the 500m.

And as far as getting tired of seeing him on T.V.; the same can be said for Vonn. If she's the best, she shouldn't have crashed out. All the "She'll vie for gold in the next event!" then gets bronze or crashes.

As for your question at the end: I don't think you can really call someone the most decorated; that's why I hate all of this Phelps crap because you can't compare swimming with gymnastics or something. No one will EVER win that many medals in gymnastics, short track, figure skating, etc.. One, because there aren't enough events; it's almost impossible to match that in anything but swimmng were there's like 10 different events. Two, the circumstances of the sport are entirely different.

YOU CANNOT COMPARE SPORTS! I hate it when they do that because it doesn't make sense!

[quietpirate]

Okay here's my take on the whole thing. Granted this is just my opinion. Yes, the hype that Apolo was going to break Bonnie Blair's record was complete overkill. I was just watching some interviews on Apolo's official website last night and he said that he had won every race there was to win and he really wasn't going into the 2010 Olympics to break records.

I think Apolo's competitors had to become faster because they knew Apolo was fast. I mean this guys study tapes of each other to prepare for competitions. But there is still that lingering question in the back of my mind is if he wasn't there to break anyone's record then why after every race did he put up his fingers to verify how many medals he had?

Regardless of the outcome of the 2010 Vancouver games. I think I will always be a fan of Apolo.

[mtnme]

Wow, aren't we tough on our Olympians? If it ain't Gold, it ain't good? Is that the premise here?

Apolo got 'short tracked'. Plenty of contact, more so than usual, and if it hadn't been for those speed robbing jostles, he'd have those gold medals you wanted. The Koreans have stated they came into this Olympic with another objective other than winning for themselves. Keeping Apolo off the podium. They did not succeed on that count. I do believe if Francois hadn't given him a bit of a push, he'd have that gold. If he could stay on his feet let alone come from dead last to third after that slip, just imagine what he could have done without it. He had plenty of gas in the tank, I have no doubt he could have done it.

But mostly, I'm proud that he busted it loose on the relay. He is the ultimate closer in this race and in doing so, all of team USA's men's team went home with a medal. Ya just can't beat that.

All I know, is I've witnessed some thrilling races going to the events, and the relays have been some of the most thrilling wins, and a lot of that due to Apolo. He will be sorely missed.

While I'll still enjoy going to the competitions, the sport will have lost a great competitor- and some of those amazing thrills with his leaving.

Who will step up and take his place? Whoever it is, they've got some mighty big shoes to fill.

[quietpirate]

Mar 1, 2010 14:33:25 GMT -5 mtnme said:

Who will step up and take his place? Whoever it is, they've got some mighty big shoes to fill.

I think J.R. Celski.

[A.O.Freak]

i enjoyed the Olympics for once in my life.. Hate to admit it but before I never was into the Olympic games till I started follwing Apolo and short track. I enjoyed every moment of it, even though Apolo didnt get the Gold like we wanted him too. Just him competeing was so interesting to me. One thing i didnt like was the closing ceremonys. Dont get me wrong it was beautiful, but it was very boring. I was waiting for the excitemement, but it never came so i just turned the channel to 'Sienfeld" re-runs..lol..

[Mars]

There was nothing like seeing our man shine. Look back as far as the first heats for the 1500. You know, starting out in the back then BAM, half a lap ahead of everyone.
Watching Apolo skate was magic, magic, MAGIC. It felt like once Short Track was finished, things kind of got...anticlimactic, I suppose. Or was that just me?
Either way, glad I got to see all the action 'from the beginning' this time around =)

[dopeyrn]

I have been struggling with these same questions myself. It IS about winning and the "journey" got old. Could I have ever done what he did...uh, no! I admire his training and sacrificing.

I think the thing that bothered me the most was after it was over, he never wore his medals; not at closing, not in some pics I saw where the other skaters have theirs on but he doesn't. Cocky? Not sure. Disinterested? Maybe.

Been a fan since the silver medal race when he crawled across the finish line and never whined poor me I should have won. It was that mentality that endeared him to me. I will watch him as he moves forward and see what his attitude does. If the ego gets big, gonna be a big turnoff. And if he loses ME, well that will say tons. I am so solid in his corner, but I think he is at a pivotal point in his life, and it will be interesting.

Looking forward to Leno show and the big announcement....

[mellie]

Mtnme said exactly what I was thinking, so ya what she said.

As for comparing sports, I agree with TDav because it's comparing apples to oranges since each sport is different. With long track, which is what Heiden and Blair skated, they only had to contend with bad ice conditions and staying on their skates. They didn't have to deal with others pushing or pulling or bumping into them while trying to cross a finish line.

Apolo never wore his medals to the previous closing ceremonies, so it was normal for him to not wear them. I didn't see it as cocky or disinterested, but what he's always done.

[sk8er]

The night before California State Championships we had a party at Dr. Bob's house. We all watched the Saturday night races on his 72" HD TV. Everyone, and I mean folks who have been shorttrackers for decades, said his pass on the outside around the Hamlin boys was absolutely amazing. Apolo actually skated better in the heats leading up to the finals. I think he gave it his best and in this sport a tiny tiny misstep, an arm, a bump, can mean the difference between the podium and the floor. And Andy Gabel is right, Apolo is the ultimate closer. The folks at the party agreed that his skating was remarkable, the best ever. I'm sure he was somewhat disappointed, but hey...8 Olympic medals? How bad is that? Certainly the most of any shorttracker in history. (Correct me if I'm wrong. Even the legendary Kim Ki Hoon didn't have that many).

SusanG

[dopeyrn]

Mellie...glad to hear about the medals. I never really noticed the other 2 Olympics.

[tdav]

Right now he has the most short track medals. Wang Meng will surpass that in Sochi, as she already has six. Lol Yang Yang (A) who?

[number1fan]

i'll just zero in on who i think the competitive Apolo is. for starters, he is an astute student of the sport...has more years of st experience locked away in his memory banks than any of his opponents or team members...and most likely can tell you each opponent's latest lap times and finishes if asked...he's one to leave no stone unturned when it comes to preparing for competition.

i also believe with all his preparation and dedication, he thinks he can win gold every time he steps onto the competitive ice. do i think that's cocky? no, all world class athletes have 'that' in them. with that being said, when he speaks about never having regrets or the saying 'well that's short track", it's said in a way to shield himself from the agony of the many 'bad beats' this unpredictably 'carrrrazy' (borderline cruel) sport hands out...starting with his very first olympic race where the korean took him out on the final turn and took that then elusive gold medal away.

one more thing.....there's a japanese phrase "shi ka ta ga nai", which means 'it's out of your hands/you can't help it' ...i'm positive Yuki has said that to Apolo more than he cares to.

anywho...shorttrack is what it is now because of Apolo....thank you Apolo for allowing me to take this AMAZING journey with you can't wait for your next chapter in life.

mtnme and susang...i'm in total agreement with what you've both said.

[dopeyrn]

OK...I am feeling duly spanked.

[Apolo_USA]

I re-read my post and I thought I came off a little harsh. That’s not what I wanted to do…I respect Apolo. 8 medals in anything is a ridiculously amazing accomplishment. I just kind of feel like his ego is inflated a little bit, and I think this (unfortunately) might be only the beginning.

Although I agree, somewhat; there is no way you can compare short track with long track. In long track, if you're the fastest, you're pretty much gauranteed a medal.

I agree 100 percent with this. They shouldn’t be saying most decorated when it comes to the Olympics because you cannot compare two athletes from 2 sports. Heck, if I had to say who I thought the best Olympian is, I might go with Shaun White. He’s 2 for 2 in gold medals, and clearly better than everyone in the sport. But just because his sport has less disciplines at the Olympics than speedskaters or skiers, does that make him less decorated?

In my opinion, men's short track was a little lack-luster this year; there was no clear best skater.

I agree with this as well. Honestly I can say I LOVE ST...I skate for goodness' sake. But I found myself more interested in Alpine Skiing and snowboarding this year than ST. SLC was exciting, Apolo owned those games with those AMAZING passes he used to make. Torino was pretty good, but Vancouver was just average for me in terms of ST. Don’t know why…maybe because it seemed that the skating was a little sloppy.

But there is still that lingering question in the back of my mind is if he wasn't there to break anyone's record then why after every race did he put up his fingers to verify how many medals he had?

Yup. Exactly what I’ve been thinking and trying to say. It seemed like that was a real showy thing to do…all for the cameras.

Wow, aren't we tough on our Olympians? If it ain't Gold, it ain't good? Is that the premise here?

I understand that any medal…heck, even making the Olympic team..should be something that’s celebrated. However, it was a bummer for me to see Apolo go out of the sport without the title of Olympic Champion. And besides…I’m tired of seeing Korea own the golds for this sport! Maybe if we stop accepting defeat we will eventually be the Number 1 in ST.

Just look at what Tdav said: Ho suk won two silvers (more than Apolo) and he will still bitterly disappointed. Seems to me that not only Korean skaters and coaches, but the country as a whole, dont really like second place. And there is nothing wrong with that, in fact, that's probably why they're so dang good at everything. Maybe I don’t agree with calling it a “disgrace” to not win a gold if you won another medal, but maybe if we had a bit more of an attitude to WIN, we would have more golds in the sport. After all, you WIN when you get a gold…you don’t technically win when you get a silver or bronze.

As much as Korea pisses me off (lol) in terms of always winning, I can respect that they're DANG good skaters, and that they're country's constant wanting to be the best is most likely the reason for that.

If the ego gets big, gonna be a big turnoff. And if he loses ME, well that will say tons. I am so solid in his corner, but I think he is at a pivotal point in his life, and it will be interesting.

This is how I feel. And for some reason, I just have the feeling that he will get a little big for his britches. He already seemed a little too into himself during these Olympics…now the Hollywood route? Ugh…the thing I hate is when Olympic athletes sell themselves for Hollywood and join that group.

Overall..now with Apolo gone, I’ll again agree with tdav in that we need to adopt a different program for training. We had 6 medals in ST this time, with equals the amount we had from the previous 2 Olympics combined. We were successful, but now it’s about taking that next step. It’s about not only barely hanging on and winning those bronzes, but about dominating and getting gold. I think Katherine is poised to do so, but that’s about all I saw from our team. I really thought we had come a long way since Torino (and we HAVE improved, don’t get me wrong), but now it will be interesting to see if we can take that next step and start winning some gold!!!!

These Olympics Apolo just seemed…different. I can’t put it into words, but he just seemed different to me. I loved him in the SLC games how he was just kind of like “Dude, I’m here to win some medals and have fun!” He grew up, I get that….but he almost became a bit…boring? I don’t know what it is but he definitely seemed different at these games, and that (more than not winning a gold) is why I was really disappointed.